Make sure you don’t have a mouthful of your favorite beverage of choice before reading the part referring to Meghan McCain as a “political analyst.” That’s like calling Chelsea Clinton a “seasoned news reporter.”

From The Hill:

Political analyst Meghan McCain, daughter of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), is challenging widespread GOP skepticism about climate change in the wake of Hurricane Sandy.

“So are we still going to go with climate change not being real fellow republicans [sic]?” McCain wrote, via Twitter, around midnight as the storm was slamming ashore.
[...]
The Washington Post closely examines the climate change-storm nexus here, while NPR explores it here.

Both outlets look at a 2012 study by the United Nation’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change on extreme weather and climate change.

That study finds that researchers currently have “low confidence” in tying cyclone activity in recent decades to climate change.

“Ommigod she was like ‘believe in climate change now’ and I was all like ‘Al Gore is a scammer’ and she was like ‘you are like so in denial’ and I was all like ‘you are!’

For the record, I believe these things are due to climate change — but not the kind of climate change McCain’s referring to (the “let’s all help make Al Gore a billionaire” kind), but rather the kind of cyclical climate change that’s been going on for a long, long time. Look it up, Meghan… there were nasty weather events long before the invention of the gas powered leaf blower and coal furnace.

I like Meghan McCain best when she’s actively trying to save the planet by reducing CO2 emissions:

mccain

Comments

116 Responses to “Noted Climatologist Asks ‘Fellow Republicans’: Think Climate Change is Real Now?

  1. backwoodsconsr on October 30th, 2012 5:44 pm

    Considering how full of it she is, I think she should be referred to as an anal-yst.

  2. Marshall_Will on October 30th, 2012 6:05 pm

    I think you're BOTH wrong! This is Allah's WILL being done to Amerika for not re-electing a soft on Jihad, mooslim sympathizer!

    May you suffer greatly… Yeah, when you're not living one atop the other in crowded, gov-job dependent areas, storms can actually be quite exciting. At least it's something to talk about?

  3. SignPainterGuy on October 30th, 2012 7:07 pm

    You left out, "May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your nether-regions" ! Just sayin` !

  4. archer on October 30th, 2012 7:18 pm

    The climate in PA changed from sunny to cloudy, from dry to rainy, from breezy to windy w/90 mph gusts, maybe there is something to this climate change.

    And a few days from now I’m betting it will be sunny and dry with a slight breeze again. And even farther down the seasonal road, I’m thinking we’ll see snow. And here’s the tuff one, next summer I’m guessing muggy and uncomfortable.

    How can anyone argue with climate change?

    =====

    Later on in her life does anyone think she’ll wonder why she can’t seem to find a husband?

  5. SignPainterGuy on October 30th, 2012 7:19 pm

    Doug, I too prefer Meghan McLame HUSHED ! She should go ahead and die her hair green to fit the agenda of Man-Caused Climate Change / First World Wealth Redistribution hoax ! She is like doing nothing to like dispel the myth that "blonds are stupid" whenever she like speaks ! I mean, "OMG !" !!

    The stuffed "RINO" toy animal is perfect !

  6. SignPainterGuy on October 30th, 2012 7:31 pm

    I heard yesterday and again today that our current weather pattern is very much like that of the `50s. Cyclical indeed !

    I doubt that the young McRino will have any difficulty finding an equally dumb guy to marry her. She is pretty and has those store-bought baby bumpers going for her …..
    I just doubt either of them would be equipped to make a marriage last !

  7. SignPainterGuy on October 30th, 2012 8:07 pm

    Here we go again !

    We are always chided by the left never to point to any single weather event as evidence that global warming is a hoax, but here those same lefties are pointing to Super-Storm Sandy as proof that CC is REAL !! Nope, no hypocrisy there !

  8. Marshall_Will on October 30th, 2012 9:02 pm

    Just fries me when you see how hard say Doug & MM *worked* to get their feet in the door ( sans family connection ) and May-guhn just waltzes in and we're supposed to all act like she has 'credentials'?

    Agreed, the Dollar Store stuffed RINO was a perfect touch!

  9. Michelle Malkin » Shocker of the day: Al Gore blames Hurricane Sandy on man made climate change on October 30th, 2012 9:21 pm

    [...] a more credible scientific source before you’ll believe a claim from Gore, Meghan McCain is backing Al up on this all the way. As a matter of fact, Van Jones thinks the right owes Gore an [...]

  10. csoeder on October 30th, 2012 10:26 pm

    "For the record, I believe these things are due to climate change [...] the kind of cyclical climate change that’s been going on for a long, long time."

    So you attribute observed climatic trends to a natural cycle rather than human fossil fuel emission? What cycle, and why? And why do you discard the theoretically and empirically backed anthropogenic hypothesis?

    "there were nasty weather events long before the invention of the gas powered leaf blower and coal furnace."

    That's true, but it's hardly the point. Frequency and intensity are also relevant considerations, as well as the rate of change in the parameters our infrastructure and ecosystem is adapted to. (Further reading: http://topologicoceans.wordpress.com/2012/07/24/g… )

  11. TiminAL on October 30th, 2012 10:45 pm

    Does this feckless twat ever say anything that makes even a modicum of sense?

  12. TiminAL on October 30th, 2012 10:49 pm

    Right…. And with this at the top of your page, you make a very convincing argument:

    TOPOC NEEDS YOUR HALP!

    This site is free, and always will be.

    Unfortunately, I may not be, as I am facing B.S. criminal charges.

    If you can toss a buck or two to my legal fund, or even just pass the word along, it would be immensely helpful. Get the whole story here.

    Riiiiiiiiiight.

  13. Marshall_Will on October 30th, 2012 10:50 pm

    Where most GW advocates run amok right out of the gate is even long term trends don't affect all regions and latitudes equally. To wit; even in the last Ice Age, huge swaths of our globe remained perfectly livable.

    Had they not, and the earth in fact turned into a solid block of frozen mass, we wouldn't be around to BLOG about it!? Here in the Pacific Northwest we've been in the icy grip of the PDO or Pacific Decadal Oscillation for oh… the last 15+ years.

    Most of the U.S doesn't wake up first thing and check what the weather's like in Seattle, Portland and increasingly even SF. It has positively S@CKED for a decade and a half. BUT… we're slowly breaking out of it and this last summer was more or less within more trad. norms.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_decadal_osci

  14. csoeder on October 30th, 2012 11:10 pm

    I am actually well aware of that. What is your point? As I emphasized in the link provided, it's the rate of change that matters as much as magnitude.

    The PDO is not responsible for observed trends for a number of reasons. For one thing, it's an oscillation – it doesn't cause trends on the 10^2-3 year scale. For another, it is just a redistribution of thermal energy between the ocean and the air. PDO can't cause both of them to simultaneously warm, which is what has been observed.

  15. csoeder on October 30th, 2012 11:11 pm

    Problem? Take a look around my site; I think that the quality of analysis I provide is self-evident. If you have a specific question or remark, I have a comments feature.

  16. SignPainterGuy on October 30th, 2012 11:33 pm

    Not that I` ve read so far. Sounds like a case of, "If you can`t dazzle `em with details, baffle `em with BS" !

    I`m hoping it will warm enough that Greenland becomes green again; I hear it`s really peaceful there !

  17. csoeder on October 30th, 2012 11:36 pm

    Hopefully civilization in western North America won't collapse like it did last time Greenland was green!

  18. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 12:00 am

    What western North American civilization was there then besides primitive Native Americans ?

  19. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 12:06 am

    Indigenous civilization in the area had been quite advanced up until the MWP, and one of the archaeological markers of the event were massive waterworks built as the droughts set in.

  20. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 12:42 am

    MWP ?

  21. joyannaadams on October 31st, 2012 12:45 am

    Just for that, I am NOT going to tell Cindy that there IS no man in the moon. I was going to help her out…send her a postcard…blond to blond, but now…

    She can just wallow in shallow water and cry. I only hope the mold in her ears finds a good reason to stay there.

  22. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 12:50 am
  23. Save us Chuck Woolery - Saving American One Trillion Dollars at a Time. on October 31st, 2012 12:59 am

    [...] from a more credible scientific source before you’ll believe a claim from Gore, Meghan McCain is backing Al up on this all the way. As a matter of fact, Van Jones thinks the right owes Gore an [...]

  24. Marshall_Will on October 31st, 2012 1:14 am

    "it is just a redistribution of thermal energy between the ocean and the air."

    Don't look for GW 'deniers' to feel in any way obligated to keep abreast the ever-moving target of redefining definitions as one talking/data point after the other falls on the sword of consensus.

    For over 30 years your cult's general premise/article of faith has been that warming OCEAN trends are what drives the $140 TRILLION you'll need to save us from, well NOTHING.

    Now you're telling us (1) driving the other ( as you already concede is the case w/ the PDO ) is no longer relevant and are off to another 'evolved' position. It doesn't matter. You'll never see a DIME of that $140T and will be forced into an endless cycle of escalating claims. We're DONE here…

  25. Marshall_Will on October 31st, 2012 1:24 am

    "Indigenous civilization in the area had been quite advanced up until the MWP,"

    Lol, we can tell by all the remnants of skyscrapers, nuke plants and whatnot! You mean those handcarved wooden totem poles? Yes, VERY 'advanced'.

  26. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 1:37 am

    that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

  27. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 1:45 am

    Hi Joyanna. You may find this interesting, timely, seeing as how you were a "Nobody" before this admin. considered it un-cool ! http://batshitcrazynews.com/2012/10/hmmm-i-may-be

    Follow the link back to "The Other McCain". (Robert Stacey McCain)

  28. archer on October 31st, 2012 1:48 am

    SPG,
    http://www.acronymfinder.com/

    Never ask again. You too can seem like a know-it-all.

  29. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 1:52 am

    They lived rather close to the land and depended greatly on stealing from other tribes. Yep, civilized !

    Also, it was warmer then than now, so I`m wondering again; what`s wrong with a warming climate ?

  30. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 2:02 am

    It's good that Ms. McCain is riding on her father's coattails for her 15 minutes of fame.

    Wasn't he one of the top 2 contenders in 2008 for the presidency, but lost to a feckless sew shall ist?

    Dad must be so proud of all of their accomplishments.

  31. Jimbo on October 31st, 2012 2:03 am

    Do I detect a subtle signal to Al Gore? Maybe she wants to marry some of that Green Pimp money, baby.

  32. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:03 am

    Totem poles are from the Northwest, not the Southwest where the MWP droughts struck.

  33. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:06 am

    "Also, it was warmer then than now,"

    Global temperatures were not higher during the MWP.

    "so I`m wondering again; what`s wrong with a warming climate ?"

    Because in addition to magnitude, the rate of current change is geologically and socially abrupt. Check out the link I posted above; it discusses MWP vs. current rates in the context of sea level rise.

  34. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 2:14 am

    Bookmarked ! :-) There are only 130 meanings for MWP; reckin` why I didn`t git it right away ?

    Elvis says, "Thankyouverymuuuch !"

  35. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 2:16 am

    I love it when people use AWDs throughout their conversations, and when people wonder what an AWD is, the original user scoffs at them, and treats them like an idiot.

    When people use these AWDs continuously, the recipient is constantly in a state of playing catch-up, and the entire point of the person telling and/or convincing is lost.

    So, use AWDs with caution, or not at all.

  36. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:27 am

    Infrastructure, however, is.

  37. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:27 am

    so are forests.

  38. backwoodsconsr on October 31st, 2012 2:30 am

    Abrupt? You mean like the lack of warming over the last 16 years?
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=876_1350291230&amp

  39. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:31 am

    You began talking about a lush Greenland. I assumed you knew the name for the last time that happened. *shrug*

  40. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 2:32 am

    Welcome to the club.

    The point of all of the "we all created the problem by buying cars" schtick is this:

    Use today's data to prove your point.
    Case in point: Hurricane Sandy is the worst storm evah!*

    Then, say it's going to get worse if we don't do something RIGHT NOW!
    Case in point: any babbling about AGW from Prince Charles/Al Gore

    Have the timeline something close enough to fear, but far enough to "do something about it", like, say, 100 years, but we better start now to solve it.
    Again, Al and Chuck come to mind.

    The solution: Some top-down sew-shall-ism (the admin blocks the correct spelling, but sound it out…) that has some committee of unelected goons dictating where I can build a house on my own property, regulating a gas that I make by exhaling, and when data comes in that is disproven, or worse, made up, the advocates of the cause will not look at any data that disproves or disagrees with their point.

    A real scientist looks at data and makes a judgement, not look at where the money is coming from and then makes a judgement. If there was no government money in AGW research, how many "scientists" would be pursuing it?

    The most idiotic thing I have heard on the subject is Al Gore saying, "the science is settled." I'm sure Mr. Gore's certainty was shared in the other scientific quandaries of their days, such as:

    Newton's Laws of Physics are all we need.
    The Earth is the center of the universe.
    The Earth is flat.
    Time is constant.
    There are only three fundamental particles, p+, e-, and neutrons
    I understand women.

    *Ever notice that each storm is worse than the last, just because they measure it in $ and human lives lost? In 1653, how many billions of dollars were destroyed, and how many millions were without power, and how many lives were lost when Hurricane Random came ashore? That's right… we don't know, so it must have been a puny storm.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlantic_hur

  41. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 2:37 am

    Or meet him in a Portland hotel room for a massage…

  42. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 2:40 am

    I didn't know her's didn't have feckles…

    You have picturess?

    wait a second…
    ;)

  43. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:43 am

    You haven't helped me understand the post I was responding to.

    (eg, "For over 30 years your cult's general premise/article of faith has been that warming OCEAN trends are what drives the $140 TRILLION you'll need to save us from, well NOTHING. ")

    You spin the typical narrative, but guess what? Narratives aren't reality. Bring some data to the table and we'll talk.

  44. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 2:52 am

    Not remembering what some know-it-alls call it does not mean I am not aware of it. *raising an eyebrow*

  45. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 2:54 am

    Hey, do AWDs cause GoreBull Warming, or cause that nasty drip thing the Biology teacher warned us about ?

  46. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:55 am

    With less than about 20 years of global temperature data, internal variability becomes too great to detect the warming signal. Computer simulations and real-world data are in agreement on this – look of Easterling & Wehrner's AGU paper on the subject (for discussion and links to this paper, see here: http://is.gd/rQXOoH ) Additionally, Foster & Ramstorff have worked on removing non-greenhouse factors from the temperature record, showing that global warming has in fact continued unabated.

    No, I mean abrupt as in, radiative forcing is currently changing an order of magnitude faster than at any point in the last 20k years *at least*

  47. backwoodsconsr on October 31st, 2012 2:58 am

    I'm still trying to figure out what Acute Watery Diarrhea has to do with this topic.

  48. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 3:26 am

    I'm speaking of the political aspect of this whole argument.

    You in the progressive/neo-liberal/calm-u-nist sphere (and yes, I read your site… how did the August 7, 2012 court date go? Your site doesn't go into details…) seem to put great faith in leaders to solve problems, and taking freedom away from individuals, and that is what troubles me.

    I prefer freedom, and convincing, rather than mandating that people do what you prefer them to do. A further case in point:

    The guy that says that we're all destroying the ecosphere with our big cars and the like, and we need something like a…cap and trade system for everyone that he happens to be a founding investor in! http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/NussbaumOnDe

  49. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 3:30 am

    You have failed to identify my politics.

  50. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 3:31 am

    Acronyms Without Definition
    ;)

    I did a presentation to co-workers with "AWD" all over it, until someone asked… "ummm… what's an AWD?"

    I smiled, and they got the point…

  51. Marshall_Will on October 31st, 2012 3:32 am

    Yawn….

    Bring WHAT 'data'? More Junque 'scientist' garbage-in/garbage-OUT data you can torture until it says what you WANT it to say? BTDT.

    "If there was no government money in AGW research, how many "scientists" would be pursuing it?"

    Here's what's really sad. Like many, there was a time when I actually was willing to entertain a great deal of this if for no other reason "than to be good 'stewards' of the earth". These clowns have utterly wore us out and now many of us don't even BOTHER with ( heaven FORBID ) 'recycling' any more?

  52. joyannaadams on October 31st, 2012 3:37 am

    Thanks SignPainterGuy! Nice to know I am batting nine out of ten! I'm SO Proud..! Joyanna Adams

  53. Marshall_Will on October 31st, 2012 3:38 am

    "Computer simulations and real-world data are in agreement on this"

    Too funny! And according to my state of the art FOD ( I should've been asleep TEN MINUTES AGO? )

    * Female Org@sm Detector

  54. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 3:39 am

    you're funny.

  55. Marshall_Will on October 31st, 2012 3:41 am

    "With less than about 20 years of global temperature data, internal variability becomes too great to detect the…"

    Federal Reserve Printing Press to FUND all this horse hockey..?

  56. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 3:44 am
  57. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 3:46 am

    Acute? It's adorable!

  58. Marshall_Will on October 31st, 2012 3:46 am

    "radiative forcing"

    Which leads to… "food deserts" RIGHT?

    More made up Progressive bs. As Doug promised ( the death throes of the Prog agenda, hinging greatly on peddling this rancid, steaming PILE ) were bound to get ugly.

  59. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 3:47 am

    Did you read the Easterling & Wehrer paper?

  60. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 3:48 am

    What?

  61. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 3:48 am

    Since the other post I wrote is under review, and I suppose Doug has other things to worry about at the moment,

    I used the data I had, and extrapolated to come up with my conclusion: http://dsp4unc.wordpress.com/profiles-of-occupyin

    Let me know if my methodology was incorrect.

  62. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 3:49 am

    Wow, good for you ! I`m only 6 1/2; 1/2 for the "purple" state.

    NC usually leans democrat, usually votes for Rs for Pres, but Ds for Governors. We`re switching to Rs for both this year !

  63. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 3:51 am

    Geez louise… the admin keeps taking my posts… anyhow, you have any data to bring to the table on your politics? I found this on the Occupying Force for a Sweat Free UNC…

    He has been interested in worker’s rights since he started learning about labor history in high school, and wants to go to a university whose apparel is made under safer, humane, and fair conditions. He likes rocking out on his guitar (‘Andromeda’), vitamin C, and long walks on the beach.

    Pina coladas too? Getting caught in the rain?

    I extrapolated on the data I had. Please let me know if my methodology is wrong.

  64. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 3:53 am

    Anarchist, dear.

  65. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 3:54 am

    Ain`t buyin` it ! Go away ! I doubt you`ll find any takers here !

  66. backwoodsconsr on October 31st, 2012 3:54 am

    They got the point and didn't need All Wheel Drive to get to it. Very good!

  67. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 3:57 am

    No, we don`t read the NYT either; they also make shit up !

  68. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 4:02 am

    Translation: "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts! Especially not from that know it all peer-reviewed literature!"

  69. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 4:03 am

    So, are you a true anarchist, or just one that wants rules for everyone else?

    The reason I ask, is true anarchy has a person that walks up to you and punches you in the face (not advocating it, just using it as an example), you have no recourse. Plus, when the paramedics show up… wait. there are no paramedics, because why would anyone want to drive an ambulance without a right of way (hey, that's a law, you know…).

    If you're like the founders, and have minimal laws, we may have some room to talk, but if you're a true anarchist, then, well, how are we going to implement these sweat free mills you want in Viet Nam, China, or wherever the UNC Sweat Shop Sweat Shirts are made?

    Just wondering, sweetheart.

  70. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 4:04 am

    Did you just accuse Geophysical Research Letters of 'making shit up'?

    Seriously?

  71. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 4:16 am

    You are confusing the common and technical uses of the word anarchy.

  72. Shocker of the day: Al Gore blames Hurricane Sandy on man made climate change | Michelle Malkin on October 31st, 2012 10:28 am

    [...] before you’ll believe a claim from Gore, Meghan McCain is backing Al up on this all the way. As a matter of fact, Van Jones thinks [...]

  73. backwoodsconsr on October 31st, 2012 10:57 am

    A portly girl in Portland?

  74. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 11:04 am
  75. Marshall_Will on October 31st, 2012 12:47 pm

    Dude you are so hopelessly behind the curve on this it isn't funny. Even Al Gore dropped back to punt/re-group.

    Please stop pretending it's 2008. "Settled Science" has left the building and future generations of taxpayers yet yet unborn are stuck holding the bag on TRILLIONS in new debt chasing "alternative energy sources" boondoggle/Democratic money laundering. No one GAF. Get w/ the program.

  76. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 12:55 pm

    A better translation:
    What you're selling, we ain't buying.

    Speaking of simulations, suppose I worked for a company that made big airplanes, and we did all of our simulations to prove that a jetliner should fly, peer reviewed and all.

    We should just build it, and not test it to verify it, right? Then, we can use that simulation to extrapolate to times before airplanes were built, and to the next 100 years.

    The thing about simulations is that they do not take into account random unkown variations. That's why, as they say, "they play the game." instead of knowing that the Green Bay Packers will beat the Dever Broncos in the Super Bowl, or that the Patriots will go undefeated for the entire season.

    It's a big universe, and there are factors that nobody has even considered.

    Translation: "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the our interpretation of the facts! Especially not from that know it all peer-reviewed literature!"

    There, FIFY…

  77. Truesoldier__ on October 31st, 2012 1:12 pm

    And the earth is what a couple billion years old. So the data we have is over a very tiny portion of the the organism which is being studied. There are too many unkowns when it comes to the climate to be able to accurately predict any outcome of a long term nature.

    Remember, when these climate models are created they punch in the known data about our climate and atmoshpere and then they punch in hypotheticals to fill in the blanks (which is about 80% of the data). This means the models are only as accurate as the hypotheticals are, which in most cases is way off.

  78. Truesoldier__ on October 31st, 2012 1:13 pm

    And here I thought it was All Wheel Drive….

  79. Truesoldier__ on October 31st, 2012 1:14 pm

    The first thing that needs to happen is that the entire McCain family needs to stop calling themselves Republicans.

  80. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 1:18 pm

    OK, honeybuns, I see your game…

    You throw out a word without your definition, and then pull out the snark to put people down for taking a word you throw out to make a point.

    So, tell us all what your definition of anarchist is, and remember to use proper grammar rules to do so.

    Words do mean things, and you use them in the same way a three year old uses paint and crayons to imitate Michaelangelo on the living room wall.

  81. jeffythequick on October 31st, 2012 1:20 pm

    PS. Two pieces of bread with some filling between them is spelled "sandwich", and not "sandwhich".

    You should, or your peers should review the red wavy underline in your articles about Dr. Everett.

  82. Marshall_Will on October 31st, 2012 1:28 pm

    Agreed. SPARE us!

    Funny how all these settled science-types feel this compelling, DRIVING need to continually sell us on the virtues of a $140T planetary make-over? I'm sorry, do CANCER researchers get on POLITICAL blogs peddling the urgency of 'funding' their work..?

    Honestly, I EXPECT to see this brand of cr@p on Portland/PNW blogs, but HERE? Even Nick nor Kent Royale would attempt to pull THAT bs. ( Do you have any wooden stakes I could borrow? ) OH..! You're supposed to leave it IN? Well, 'have'?

  83. backwoodsconsr on October 31st, 2012 1:37 pm

    And take Colin Powell with them.

  84. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 2:19 pm

    Long answer, "Yyeeeeessssss !"

  85. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 2:28 pm

    Poor Al; all `em `ere unsettled chakras jammed up inside. It was like he was possessed !

  86. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 2:30 pm

    Even Condi is slippin` a little ! *groan*

  87. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:33 pm

    The preface was written in desktop publishing software which did not have ambient spellcheck.

    But hey, at least I didn't mangle a citation so that it pointed to different dataset, in front of congress, amirite?

    (PS: No one cares. http://achewood.com/index.php?date=07102002 )

  88. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:37 pm

    Anarchy, common use: Pandemonium. Example: "The cops attacked the protesters, ran over the sound system with their car, and pepper-sprayed a 15 year old. It was pure anarchy!"

    Anarchy, technical use: Lacking in imposed power structure, ie, without hierarchy. Example: "I went to a vegan potluck with the anarchists. Everyone ate brownies and we played party games."

    For more detail, check out Anarcopedia, le Guinn's writing, or your local zine collector.,

  89. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:40 pm

    Are you sure you understand how global circulation models work?

  90. Marshall_Will on October 31st, 2012 2:40 pm

    Lol!

    all `em `ere unsettled chakras jammed up inside

    Sounds like something The Stones wrote! Al was probably about as high?

  91. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:41 pm

    also, you know that AGW was predicted long before GCMs? And that it has been observed empirically, right?

  92. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:47 pm

    "So the data we have is over a very tiny portion of the the organism which is being studied. "

    The instrumental data, perhaps. There are proxy records covering much more. Also, just because a system is complicated doesn't mean that it's acausal. If you understand the underlying physics, you can make at least general statements about it's behavior.

    I don't think your description of how GCMs are used is entirely correct. (where are you getting your 80% figure?)

    Your claims about their accuracy are also off. Not only do GCMs perform well at describing global temperature (I've given one example above), they can be good at forecasting as well:
    http://topologicoceans.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/c

  93. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:49 pm

    Do you have evidence for that claim? It's a pretty serious accusation.

    In this case, the first thing to do would be to download the data Easterling & Wehrner used, and try to replicate their analysis. Have you done that?

  94. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 2:59 pm

    How can we be sure that HIV causes AIDS? after all….

    "It's a big universe, and there are factors that nobody has even considered. "

    For that matter, how can we be sure of anything? Let's wallow in epistemological nihilism some more; it's certainly politically and economically convenient…

  95. Marshall_Will on October 31st, 2012 3:04 pm

    There's ANOTHER memo you simply didn't get or refused to read:

    We're not taking any more "teachable moments" from The Professional Left dipw@d. Take your "Anarcopedia" and shove it. Enjoy your scented jasmine peas and hopelessly derailed narrative!

  96. Truesoldier__ on October 31st, 2012 3:10 pm

    "The instrumental data, perhaps. There are proxy records covering much more."

    So you are claiming that we have accurate data going back for how long? If the planet has been around for billions of years then a few hundred years (or even thousand years) of data would be miniscule in the larger scheme of things.

    You can make general statements, but those statements are based on whether or not your hypiothesis are correct. So far the models have been proven not to be spot on.

  97. Marshall_Will on October 31st, 2012 3:10 pm

    "If you understand the underlying physics, you can make at least general statements about it's behavior."

    Right, they're called SWAG's. 'Proxy records'. STOP. Just please..! If one LICK of what you've claimed were true, why has Wall Street abandoned the quest for the holy grail of trading and simply focused on HFT? Hmmm Mr. Chartologist..?

  98. Truesoldier__ on October 31st, 2012 3:12 pm

    Ok, so you are all in for climate change, global warming or whatever you all want to call it today. Then answer me this question.

    What is the optimal temperature and/ climate for the Earth?

  99. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 3:14 pm

    You seem upset. What's wrong?

  100. Marshall_Will on October 31st, 2012 3:17 pm

    As Doug posted previously:
    http://www.dividedstates.com/list-of-failed-obama

    All obstensibly tax payer funded to "head off" the effects of GW! Your beef isn't w/ 'us'. It's w/ the a-holes that scuttled any window of your claims a legit platform until we've been dead as long Da Vinci has.

  101. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 3:20 pm

    I don't see how the age of the earth really effects things here. Are you suggesting that, because there may have been climatic events in the past, then current one might not be serious? Or that it might not be caused by people?

    Here's an example of some of the Deep Time proxy data that exists; this comes from ocean sediment cores: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:65_Myr_Climate_

    I'm afraid I don't understand your second paragraph, could you elaborate? In particular, could you explain what you mean by 'proven'?

    And keep in mind – there's a lot more to climatology than modelling ;)

  102. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 3:21 pm

    Look, these characters aren`t Holy Prophets, they`re part of a huge agenda of wealth redistribution.

    When it was, "The world is over-populated" and "Globull cooling is imminent" in `69, my BS Meter pegged. In the `70s when the alarm was changed to globull warming, it pegged again and I saw that it was the same marxists sounding the alarm.

    In the late `90s there was a back-stage hot-mic moment when a GoreBull Warming alarmist was caught ON TAPE saying, "the evidence does not support our claim, but the agenda is so important, we need to change the name to something more catchy, like 'Climate Change' ", the cat was totally out of the bag.

    Then it became Climate Disruption in the early `00s and again, it was man`s fault. Thousands of weather data collection stations were ignored in favor of a relative few that were / are located in hot spots (parking lots, black roof tops, airport runways, etc.). East Anglia got caught with over 600 emails showing their fudging of data.

    Who are those who support the notion of man-caused climate change ? Sew-shall-ists, marxists, comm-yew-nists, liberals, progressives ………. but very, very few Christians. Even the IPCC and NPR are bailing on you ! Fascinating !

  103. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 3:31 pm

    I think that's a false framing of the issue. The earth system is dynamic; there isn't one single best setting for the thermostat.

    The issue with current climate change is the rate at which it occurs – it's geologically abrupt. That's a problem, because there are strict upper limits to the speed of adaptation to the change. I explore this issue in the context of ecosystems and infrastructure in more detail here: http://topologicoceans.wordpress.com/2012/07/24/g

  104. SignPainterGuy on October 31st, 2012 3:34 pm

    Here`s another thing that sets off my BS Meter; CO2 is destroying our atmoshpere. It only comprises about 1/36 of 1% of the atmosphere and will be absorbed by plants up to 6% concentration AND the more CO2 there is, the better plants grow and the more oxygen they produce which sounds great to me. AND CO2 isn`t dangerous to humans until the concentration exceeds 7%, SO, as long as I stay away from volcanoes and manure sludge pits, I`m in good shape.

    AGAIN, I ain`t buyin` what you`re sellin` !

  105. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 3:44 pm

    I'd respond, but that would just make me a part of the conspiracy.

  106. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 3:51 pm

    "CO2 is destroying our atmoshpere."
    Don't forget the oceans! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LJFTDHLQyk

    "the more CO2 there is, the better plants grow"
    This is an oversimplification. CO2 fertilization exists, but it's one of many competing factors. Here's a more in-depth discussion: http://topologicoceans.wordpress.com/2012/04/28/g

    Also, a lot (most?) of photosynthesis takes place in the ocean, and is limited by iron availability, not CO2. Warmer oceans will reduce iron availability by increasing stratification of the water column.

  107. Truesoldier__ on October 31st, 2012 4:44 pm

    Deep time data. Love that one. We also happen to know that at one point the Earth was nearly covered in water with very little land mass. There were no glaciers at the poles. So what I am pointing out is that as human beings we have no clue what the best climate for Earth is. The Earth was here long before we were and it will be here long after we are gone. Going and making massive changes to our lives based on data that is less than 1% of the total time the Earth has been around could end up doing more harm than good for all we know.

  108. Truesoldier__ on October 31st, 2012 4:47 pm

    If you cannot answer the question as to what is the best temp/climate for Earth then how are you to be able to fix the problem and claim success? That is the biggest part of this phony problem. Your side has no true solution. Not even a goal that you have set that would be the "fix" for everything. The reason is that this is all faux outrage as a way to attempt to control the lives of people and take money out of their pockets.

  109. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 5:33 pm

    Reread my response.

  110. csoeder on October 31st, 2012 5:36 pm

    You are correct, the environment has been different in the past. I have already explained that "best thermostat setting" is a bad way to frame the issue. I don't understand why you keep bringing up the age of the earth. "the earth is old" doesn't imply "geophysics is an ineffable mystery"

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  113. csoeder on November 27th, 2012 2:34 pm

    Wait, are you trying to suggest that because the climate system is complex and dynamical, it is somehow acausal and/or ineffable?

  114. csoeder on November 27th, 2012 2:35 pm

    You're 'aware' that it was warmer then than now, but now aware of its name?

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